The first group interests us here. It's the group that makes claims like:
- The territories are disputed, not occupied.
- The settlements are not illegal under international law.
- Israeli soldiers are required by their Code of Ethics to risk their own lives in order not to harm civilians.
- Torture is illegal in Israel.
- All of Palestine, from the river to the sea, was given to the Jews by the League of Nations and this has not been repealed.
- The difference between Palestinian terrorism nowadays and Jewish terrorism in the 1930s-40s is that the latter never targetted civilians.
Keep in mind that these "unsophisticated" bloggers achieve their objective not when they win a debate with an anti-Zionist, but when they succeed in having a neutral reader repeat the bullshit above in other blogs.
Elder of Ziyon belongs in this group. He will endlessly exploit the West's willingness to believe anything nasty about the Arabs (and anything good about the Jews) to discredit the whole ethnic group, with little attention to truth or fact.
In a recent post, Elder reminded us that, as is already known, the Arabs are liars. Under the heading Today's lying PalArab "eyewitnesses," Elder starts off by quoting the Palestinian news agency Ma'an:
Fifteen Israeli settlers from the Yitzhar settlement near Nablus attempted to set fire to a home in the village of Burin, Palestinian sources said Saturday.EoZ goes on to analyze:
Wearing white prayer shirts marking the Jewish Sabbath the group stormed the home of Ayman Attalla Safwan carrying flame excellents but were confronted by several villagers who tried to prevent their entry into the home, eyewitnesses described.
Not sure what "flame excellents" are but not only would religious Jews not carry implements to create a fire - they wouldn't carry anything at all on the Sabbath, outside of what is necessary for saving lives.Because Einstein was Jewish, the gullible West will actually believe that religious Israeli Jews love the commandments of their religion more than they hate the Arabs. A recent Jerusalem Post story, however, proves otherwise:
Just another example of the lies that Palestinian Arab "witnesses" routinely engage in.
Hebron rabbi permits gentile Shabbat construction in settlementsAt the time of the post's publication, however, I wasn't aware of this fatwa, but I did know that destroying fruit-bearing trees is illegal under Jewish religious law, and that settlers have been proven to burn and uproot olive trees. I told EoZ so. His response:
Rabbi Dov Lior, the rabbi of Hebron-Kiryat Arba, issued a halachic ruling last week that it was permitted to employ non-Jews on Shabbat to build in Judea and Samaria during the present construction freeze. (...)
Although there is no prohibition against a non-Jew working on Shabbat, there is a rabbinic prohibition for a Jew to tell a non-Jew to do work for him. It is considered more severe to tell a non-Jew to perform a biblical prohibition such as building than to perform a rabbinical prohibition. Nevertheless, to facilitate the settling of the land of Israel it is permitted.
HB, the unfortunate truth is that even religious Jews sometimes pick and choose which laws they emphasize. for example, haredi Jews throwing stones on Shabbos at people violates a number of laws.There exist bogus accusations of olive-tree destruction against the settlers, just like there exist bogus Holocaust survivors who collect huge sums writing books about their "stories" before being exposed. This doesn't mean that Elie Wiesel is a liar, or that Ma'an's story is false. So that I told EoZ:
Creating a fire on the Sabbath is a law that would not be violated by any Jew who pretends to be religious. It is as unthinkable as eating a BLT in public. I stand by my analysis - the event did not happen as described.
(BTW, Palestinian Arabs have a long history of destroying olive trees - of Jews. And most of the olive tree accusations against Jews are lies as well.)
You say "most" but you cited ONE case. I don't mean to offend you, but you look like the Holocaust deniers who say "the Jewish soap story is a lie; therefore, there was no Holocaust."To which he retorted:
To prove your point, you must cite ALL accusations and prove that at least 51% of them are lies.
If there is a pattern of lies where Arabs cut down their own olive trees, then the accusations become automatically suspect.How many swallows does it take to make a summer? Not 4, in this case, given the huge amount of olive-tree accusations. To further clarify things, I wrote:
How many does it take to establish a pattern?
The one I linked was October, 2008.
January 2006 (video of Arabs cutting trees down): http://joesettler.blogspot.com/2...live- trees.html
November 2003: http://www.israelnationalnews.co...News.aspx/ 52528
Given this pattern, we need more than Arab and leftist "eyewitnesses" to establish that the accusations have a basis in fact.
Here is a list of olive tree claims compiled by Yesh Din. Can Elder prove that most of these claims are false?EoZ:
If he can't, this is yet another instance of this blog providing non-credible information.
It is very funny that your evidence shows that most of the reported incidents could not be shown to have been done by Jews.Me:
Even so, I was going to change my wording to "as far as I understand, most of the..." - but I couldn't correct the post, as it was in the comments.
This is a lot of effort to prove that I was wrong in something I didn't even post. And you still haven't.
But they (the reported incidents) could not be shown to be lies, either. If you have proof that they are, please show it. It will be of great interest to the State of Israel as it will clarify once and for all what really happened. (...)Which finally led to a remarkable statement by EoZ:
I don't have to prove anything. The burden of proof falls on the one making an assertion.
Thanks for your opinion of what I must do. I feel I must ignore it. (...) I still believe my original claim is accurate, but I admit I have no hard proof, as you have no proof otherwise. My belief is based on the combination of multiple staged fake olive tree damage by Pals and anti_Israel activists, and the dual incentive of doing the faking - making settlers look bad, and getting compensation from Israel for such accusations. Given that, settler denials have at least as much credibility as the original accusations.This is what it all boils down to. The Zionist threshold for truth is one's belief as backed by one's manipulation of selective information. He believes the settlers more than he does the Palestinians, but he passes off this belief as fact. In pure Holocaust-denier fashion, he compiles a short list of faked incidents and draws conclusions about the much longer list of reported incidents. And, unfortunately (and this is what we're up against), the West believes his belief.
Because, you know, Jews have 250 Nobel prizes and gave warnings before their terror attacks, while Arabs are hook-nosed, thick-eyebrowed and have shining black eyes and a knife in their teeth.