tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2781379104401133933.post6856585361874775445..comments2024-03-22T22:27:18.642-07:00Comments on The Hasbara Buster: If this fails, we can try yellow badgesIbrahim Ibn Yusufhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09839484683464457225noreply@blogger.comBlogger11125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2781379104401133933.post-81838396561291769052010-01-07T16:02:35.005-08:002010-01-07T16:02:35.005-08:00I have rarely talked about Israel's legitimacy...<i>I have rarely talked about Israel's legitimacy on this blog. This is a blog aimed at fighting Hasbara. I take a Hasbara talking point and deconstruct it, often finding contradictions and inconsistencies, and on other occasions showing that it simply relies on false information.</i><br /><br />Do you honestly believe what you just wrote? "Refuting hasbara" is your gimmick or your angle, but are you really trying to say that you don't have some overall interest in the sort of opinion that people have of Israel? That the existence of X refutes someone's claim of not-X, especially if that someone is Bubba99, is usually one of the least interesting things you can say about X.<br /><br /><i>If you've got the power to grant or revoke kashrut certificates, and you revoke mine because I used Christmas decorations, you're taking patrons away from my restaurant not because I don't please them (all they want is kasher food), but because I don't please you. That's what coercion is about: forcing behaviors on people that don't take into account what those people think.</i><br /><br />The ability to withhold kosher certification does represent considerable power. What I've been saying is that you can't please everybody with an opinion about how and whether that power should be used for things besides kashrut itself. Some people would feel all warm and fuzzy if the kosher supervisors at the kosher restaurant they were patronizing would get involved in matters of environmental law compliance. In the US, restaurants have some choice about what certification to obtain. I don't know exactly how it works in Israel, but I have no doubt that excessive government involvement in things tends to lead to fewer choices.Yitzchak Goodmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13478596798458473250noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2781379104401133933.post-75312400316003411552010-01-05T22:45:07.682-08:002010-01-05T22:45:07.682-08:00Somehow, as the conversation has proceeded, Israel...<i>Somehow, as the conversation has proceeded, Israel's legitimacy somehow isn't hanging in the balance anymore. You didn't happen to notice that, did you?</i><br /><br />I have rarely talked about Israel's legitimacy on this blog. This is a blog aimed at fighting Hasbara. I take a Hasbara talking point and deconstruct it, often finding contradictions and inconsistencies, and on other occasions showing that it simply relies on false information.<br /><br />In the case of the present thread, I tried to show that, contrary to the claims of some, religious coercion does not play a marginal role in Israel. I believe my attempt was successful.<br /><br /><i>You can't please everybody.</i><br /><br />The problem is that there's a lot of people who want to eat kasher but don't mind a Christmas tree being displayed. If you've got the power to grant or revoke kashrut certificates, and you revoke mine because I used Christmas decorations, you're taking patrons away from my restaurant not because I don't please them (all they want is kasher food), but because I don't please <i>you</i>. That's what coercion is about: forcing behaviors on people that don't take into account what those people think.Ibrahim Ibn Yusufhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09839484683464457225noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2781379104401133933.post-68695393722856698312010-01-05T17:56:58.656-08:002010-01-05T17:56:58.656-08:00What I meant was, "the kashrut certificate sh...<i>What I meant was, "the kashrut certificate shouldn't be used to force you not to put up a Christmas tree." Separate pots for milk and meat are not incompatible with fir trees with decorations.</i><br /><br />In America some liberal Jews have been advocating for "ethical kashrut." They want kosher supervision to address matters such as compliance with environmental regulations--things that "separate pots for milk and meat are not incompatible" with. You can't please everybody. Somehow, as the conversation has proceeded, Israel's legitimacy somehow isn't hanging in the balance anymore. You didn't happen to notice that, did you?Yitzchak Goodmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13478596798458473250noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2781379104401133933.post-83539538597903942010-01-05T12:11:38.711-08:002010-01-05T12:11:38.711-08:00I don't believe Christmas trees were popular i...I don't believe Christmas trees were popular in Milton's time.<br /><br />What I meant was, "the kashrut certificate <i>shouldn't</i> be used to force you not to put up a Christmas tree." Separate pots for milk and meat are not incompatible with fir trees with decorations.<br /><br />Living in an Italian-majority city where prosciutto is almost a staple, I have only this to say: long live treif! (Will my blogging license be revoked for this?)Ibrahim Ibn Yusufhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09839484683464457225noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2781379104401133933.post-59401628330500353592010-01-05T11:22:10.490-08:002010-01-05T11:22:10.490-08:00Not being kasher will take away patrons from your ...<i>Not being kasher will take away patrons from your restaurant.</i><br /><br />Going kosher also involves choices about patrons. Not being able to mix milk and meat is a big limitation on some cuisines. According to a recent Ynet article most gourmet restaurants in Israel are not kosher.<br /><br /><i>But if you open a kasher one, the kashrut certificate can't be used to force you not to put up a Christmas tree.</i><br /><br />You meant to write that it can be? That's an Israeli sort of issue. In America nobody who would bother to have a kosher restaurant would put up an Xmas tree to begin with.<br /><br /><i>Do you consider Christian symbols "foolish"?</i><br /><br />I've taught John Milton if that answers your question. Nowadays I learn Gemara and leave comments on anti-Hasbara blogs.Yitzchak Goodmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13478596798458473250noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2781379104401133933.post-59027880770540765062010-01-05T06:52:15.892-08:002010-01-05T06:52:15.892-08:00If it's a kosher restaurant.
Not being kasher...<i>If it's a kosher restaurant.</i><br /><br />Not being kasher will take away patrons from your restaurant. Of course, you can open a non-kasher establishment. But if you open a kasher one, the kashrut certificate can't be used to force you not to put up a Christmas tree.<br /><br />Do you consider Christian symbols "foolish"?Ibrahim Ibn Yusufhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09839484683464457225noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2781379104401133933.post-74675361567408188392010-01-04T12:00:30.403-08:002010-01-04T12:00:30.403-08:00If you own a restaurant, you've got to display...<i>If you own a restaurant, you've got to display a kashrut certificate that states that you comply with Jewish dietary laws.</i><br /><br />If it's a kosher restaurant.Yitzchak Goodmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13478596798458473250noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2781379104401133933.post-45544725857864401922010-01-04T07:14:51.549-08:002010-01-04T07:14:51.549-08:00¿Por qué no escribes ya en tu blog en castellano?
...<i>¿Por qué no escribes ya en tu blog en castellano?</i><br /><br />Porque tengo una sola vida. Además, como trabajo mucho en el área de traducción-edición, pasar lo que escribo del inglés al castellano me significaba más de lo mismo, y no una distracción.<br /><br />Sé que está mal empezar un proyecto y después no seguirlo, pero vivimos en un mundo de individuos imperfectos, y yo me cuento entre los más defectuosos de la blogósfera.Ibrahim Ibn Yusufhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09839484683464457225noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2781379104401133933.post-83607062083271383082010-01-04T06:01:54.328-08:002010-01-04T06:01:54.328-08:00¿Por qué no escribes ya en tu blog en castellano?
...¿Por qué no escribes ya en tu blog en castellano?<br /><br /> SaludosAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2781379104401133933.post-30370770235542619372010-01-01T10:24:41.202-08:002010-01-01T10:24:41.202-08:00To be entirely honest Ibrahim, I didn't realis...To be entirely honest Ibrahim, I didn't realise just how far this encroachment on separation between Synagogue and State has already been taken. Undoubtedly some (even liberal Jewish) apologists will tell us that having a set of 'Jewish values' to be templated over the state, is no different to having a set of 'British values' or 'French values' but even if the difference is only one of degree, it is one of very considerable degree.<br /><br />Then there are those who foolishly will continue to claim that ethnocentricity does not necessarily lead to intolerance but modern Israel already proves them wrong. And when values are based on religion, intolerance of the non-religious and more liberal elements usually rears its ugly head. Things will undoubtedly get worse for non-Jewish and non-religious citizens in Israel.<br /><br />Anonymous:<br /><br />The 'Zionist Evangelicals' to which you are referring essentially endorse and sponsor Israel as the Final Battlefield between Good and Evil. At End of Days, the prophet that will descend magically from the skies will be declared to be Jesus (the sequel!) and Jews will have two choices: convert and be raptured or burn in hell for all of eternity.<br /><br />It says a lot about the cynical nature of Zionism that it accepts financial support from people who essentially want Jews to 'perfect' themselves at some future date: hard to think of anything more antisemitic than that but then Zionism's never shied away from convenience marriages with antisemitism. And we're all 'Judeo-Christians' now, don't you know?Gerthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07752117708821629614noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2781379104401133933.post-67897919912518955562010-01-01T05:14:11.840-08:002010-01-01T05:14:11.840-08:00Well said H.B
One wonders what the Jerry Falwells ...Well said H.B<br />One wonders what the Jerry Falwells and Pat Robertsons think of all this, this new adoration, by America's Evangelicals, of an Israel whose Jewish fundermentalist continue to harbour a doctrinl contempt for Christianity only rivalled by the contempt which the Christian fundermentalist reserve for the Jews themselves.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com