tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2781379104401133933.post5887721968683731809..comments2024-03-22T22:27:18.642-07:00Comments on The Hasbara Buster: When immaturity meets double standards: the Aftonbladet "scandal"Ibrahim Ibn Yusufhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09839484683464457225noreply@blogger.comBlogger22125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2781379104401133933.post-72621005828651278932009-09-20T07:05:14.826-07:002009-09-20T07:05:14.826-07:00Just in case you haven't seen it, the Boström ...Just in case you haven't seen it, the Boström article was reprinted in English later in the Aftonbladet here:<br /><br />http://www.aftonbladet.se/kultur/article5691805.abBnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2781379104401133933.post-62458006520306774992009-09-04T06:25:22.934-07:002009-09-04T06:25:22.934-07:00Very interesting, Senhal...Very interesting, Senhal...Gerthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07752117708821629614noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2781379104401133933.post-45907458217436552102009-09-03T17:01:07.026-07:002009-09-03T17:01:07.026-07:00I can actually read Swedish... There wasn't an...I can actually read Swedish... There wasn't anything particularly bad about Boström's article: it's a rather typical 'these-are-rumours-I-heard-but-can't-substantiate' piece which turns up all over the place from war zones, China/Tibet, African countries, etc. He detailed why he wrote about the case now, what he had heard, and the unsuccessful steps he had taken to investigate the case. Then he concluded that the circumstancial evidence warranted a proper investigation - which I agree with.<br /><br />The Swedish ambassador had been explicitly ordered not to release any statement pending further instructions. Furthermore, her statement pretty much stated that the article went beyond the bounds of free speech - and that that was the position of the Swedish government. To add an additional frisson, she's evidently a member of the Bonnier family, which owns a publishing house which publishes newspapers that compete with Aftonbladet. The Swedish Foreign Minister has furthermore explicitly stated that he does not act as a 'media critic', and does not comment on newspaper articles that do not pertain to the government's actions. A previous government minister who offered a vague apology in the Muhammed cartoons case had to go: Sweden has already had its debate on government intervention in the freedom of the press following international uproar.<br /><br />The Jerusalem Post story, by the way, was a series of articles which deeply upset the Norwegian Jewish community, including a holocaust survivor whose words the JPost had twisted, and former MK.<br /><br />Frankly I think those who scream about Scandinavian anti-Semitism should be ashamed of themselves: no-one in Sweden, as far as I know, has mentioned the fact that Sweden during WWII accepted all those Danish Jews that were ferried across by the Swedes (practically all of them), as well as that half of Norwegian Jews the Norwegian resistance managed to smuggle across the border. That's a better record than most other countries, and hardly the act of a perennially anti-Semitic country.<br /><br />(I'm not Swedish, btw.)Senhalnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2781379104401133933.post-89978711325755131312009-09-03T13:13:13.870-07:002009-09-03T13:13:13.870-07:00Anonymous should also consider something else: due...Anonymous should also consider something else: due to the multitude of anti-Semitic myths collated through the ages, Zionists have no problems attempting to create 'historical' parallels between some criticisms of Israel and said anti-Semitic myths. Here a shoe can be found for almost every foot if one is willing to do some creative fitting...<br /><br />Most seriously was the allegation that accepting there is such a thing as the Israel Lobby was tantamount in believing there is a contemporary 'World Jooooo Conspiracy', a la 'Elders of Zion'. Unfortunately for the smear merchants, the existence of such a lobby is now no longer in dispute, not even by the lobby itself.<br /><br />More risibly and more recently, on account of the 'natural growth' flap, Obama got compared to the Pharao by no less than an... Israeli cabinet minister! And comparisons between Obama and Hitler are a plenty. Hamas and to a lesser extent Fatah are considered by many (including the dreadful Jerkowitz) the linear descendants of the Nazis. M.Begin was quite obsessive about calling Arafat Hitler.Gerthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07752117708821629614noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2781379104401133933.post-86214673671533017422009-09-03T09:03:18.074-07:002009-09-03T09:03:18.074-07:00Anonymous:
"To anyone with the slightest fam...Anonymous:<br /><br /><i>"To anyone with the slightest familiarity with the history of Christian-Jewish relations this cannot help but echo voices of the kind of rabid anti-Semitic propaganda that contributed to the holocaust. To call it a Blood Libel is fitting."</i><br /><br />No it is not. We have no evidence that the organ theft took place, which is why the journalism practices was sloppy to say the least.<br /><br />But the stories told and bodies that clearly had been opened up that fuel them clearly exist. You're comparing a myth (classic anti-Semitic blood libels) with something that's real but as yet unproven. Aftonbladet should retract if later it turns out that no organ theft has occurred.<br /><br />What will you do if the stories turn out to be true? Claim we can't discuss it because it's too reminiscent of mythical blood libels? If such organ theft did take place it has nothing to do with bloodlibel.<br /><br />Hasbara Buster's piece is about the ridiculous reaction Aftonbladet received, including double standards applied.<br /><br /><i>"Indeed, the very focus on this affair by commentators such as The Hasbara Buster reinforces the perception that behind left-wing criticism of Israel lie dark, anti-Semitic motives."</i><br /><br />That perception is entirely in your head and undoubtedly was already there before you read HB's piece.<br /><br /><i>"This is an issue that has nothing to do with the Israeli-Palestinian issue, and thee fact that even in such a case Left Wingers are more interested in denouncing Israel than in standing up against anti-Semitism is telling."</i><br /><br />Many 'Left Wingers' have denounced the piece as poor journalism. But Israel's reaction is typical: let's just try and blame it on <i>Classic anti-Semitism (TM)</i>. If they want to maintain the moral high ground then they shouldn't stoop so low.<br /><br />As I wrote above:<br /><br />"But I don't see many regimes calling for governments to condemn the utterances of members of their free press corps..."<br /><br />Do you, anonymous?<br /><br />Israel is like a spoiled, petulant child: always throwing its toys out of its pram.Gerthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07752117708821629614noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2781379104401133933.post-53983664259929547032009-09-02T23:48:56.522-07:002009-09-02T23:48:56.522-07:00I started reading Hasbara Buster after coming acro...I started reading Hasbara Buster after coming across an articulate and intelligent analysis of the Gaza crisis (http://thehasbarabuster.blogspot.com/2008/12/gaza-food-for-thought-or-derision.html). I didn't agree with everything, but it was an intelligent contribution to the discussion.<br /><br />Unfortunately, the following posts went down, fast, and this is the most hare-brained of them all, so far.<br /><br />The author criticizes one article in the Jerusalem Post, a comment by one of Israel's dumbest politicians, and believe it or not a comparison between one Israeli blogger and one Norwegian blogger. The latter is particularly ridiculous as it is a blatant case of cherry picking.<br /><br />The Aftonbladet piece is the most patently, obviously anti-Semitic piece of writing appearing in a contemporary, mainstream Western newspaper I've ever encountered ( the closest in the "cartoon" of Ariel Sharon eating Palestinian children). To anyone with the slightest familiarity with the history of Christian-Jewish relations this cannot help but echo voices of the kind of rabid anti-Semitic propaganda that contributed to the holocaust. To call it a Blood Libel is fitting.<br /><br />What is most shocking is that, AFTER THE SWEDISH AMBASSADOR CONDEMNED THE ARTICLE, THE SWEDISH GOVERNMENT EXPLICITLY REBUKED THIS CONDEMNATION. This has nothing to do with Freedom of Speech - hardly anyone argues that Aftonbladet should be in any way censored - I certainly don't argue thus - but it is an outrageous accusation, and the least the Swedish government could do was to denounce it. Freedom of Speech does NOT mean that the government can have no views regarding the content of Speech. That would be absurd.<br /><br />Indeed, the very focus on this affair by commentators such as The Hasbara Buster reinforces the perception that behind left-wing criticism of Israel lie dark, anti-Semitic motives. Left wingers should be the first to condemn the Aftonbladet and the Swedish government's response to this case. This is an issue that has nothing to do with the Israeli-Palestinian issue, and thee fact that even in such a case Left Wingers are more interested in denouncing Israel than in standing up against anti-Semitism is telling.<br /><br />There are worse things in life than agreeing with Alan Dershowitz about something. Anti Semitism is one of those things.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2781379104401133933.post-76258780287674470492009-09-02T10:22:15.294-07:002009-09-02T10:22:15.294-07:00Kadhafi is a fool.
But Judeopundit, rather typica...Kadhafi is a fool.<br /><br />But Judeopundit, rather typically, then spoils it all by classic insinuation:<br /><br /><i>"The bit about the "brilliant choice" just made those two paragraphs so worthwhile for me. Meanwhile, at PressTV we learn about other places reached by Zionist tentacles: "Sarkozy, Merkel under Israeli influence: Iran": [...]"</i><br /><br /><i>Zionist tentacles</i>, d'ya geddit, d'ya geddit? World Jooooo Conspiracy, man!<br /><br />Is there anyone who <i>doesn't believe</i> that Merkel and Sarkozy aren't influenced in their anti-Iran stance by their pro-Israel stance? You really don't need Press TV to 'learn' that...<br /><br />Israel strongly influences ME foreign policy of most Western governments. Oh no, shit, it's because Israel is the most wonderful democracy in the ME. Idiot me...Gerthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07752117708821629614noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2781379104401133933.post-4979258730988341072009-09-02T09:36:12.360-07:002009-09-02T09:36:12.360-07:00The most risible argument used against 'us'...<i>The most risible argument used against 'us' is that we should consider just how tiny Israel is: is this 'tiny sliver' really worth 'fussing about'? Look away now folks, ain't nothing to see here, just a tiny sliver of Jewish land going about its business...</i><br /><br />Gaddafi wasn't fooled.<br /><br />http://judeopundit.blogspot.com/2009/09/irib-kadhafi-africas-woes-stem-from.htmlYitzchak Goodmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13478596798458473250noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2781379104401133933.post-45972220261338206312009-09-01T12:30:55.235-07:002009-09-01T12:30:55.235-07:00This is apparently the story that won't go awa...This is apparently the story that won't go away. But let's consider this one:<br /><br />http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/0,1518,645375,00.html<br /><br />Is this an example of anti-deutschitism or a "sauerkraut libel?"<br /><br />Or just another sensational article on shady dealings in an unimaginably lucrative body parts market?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2781379104401133933.post-71691327899890683402009-09-01T09:11:17.021-07:002009-09-01T09:11:17.021-07:00Goodman:
"That's an editorial "we&q...Goodman:<br /><br /><i>"That's an editorial "we"?"</i><br /><br />How lame.<br /><br />The 'we' stands for those who get constantly accused of awarding Israel exceptional status and not looking at the crimes of others. The most risible argument used against 'us' is that we should consider just how tiny Israel is: is this 'tiny sliver' really worth 'fussing about'? Look away now folks, ain't nothing to see here, just a tiny sliver of Jewish land going about its business...Gerthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07752117708821629614noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2781379104401133933.post-8974921330154235142009-09-01T08:03:13.559-07:002009-09-01T08:03:13.559-07:00We slam Israel and not Sudan because some countrie...<i>We slam Israel and not Sudan because some countries, like some stories, are more attention-getting than others. No antisemitism on our part.</i><br /><br />That's an editorial "we"? What an interesting thing to say about yourself.Yitzchak Goodmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13478596798458473250noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2781379104401133933.post-44411211011940504932009-08-31T21:16:59.199-07:002009-08-31T21:16:59.199-07:00Some stories are more attention-getting.
I see yo...<i>Some stories are more attention-getting.</i><br /><br />I see you're getting it, at last.<br /><br />We slam Israel and not Sudan because some countries, like some stories, are more attention-getting than others. No antisemitism on our part.Ibrahim Ibn Yusufhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09839484683464457225noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2781379104401133933.post-53723007789997783282009-08-31T20:47:47.721-07:002009-08-31T20:47:47.721-07:00As soon as Netanyahu asks Obama to condemn Farrakh...<i>As soon as Netanyahu asks Obama to condemn Farrakhan, I'll sit down and do the post.</i><br /><br />Glib comparisons seem to be your stock in trade anyway. You wrote:<br /><br /><i>None of the Israeli politicians or Zionist bloggers now decrying Aftonbladet's bad standards said anything about the Jerusalem Post in the wake of this gaffe.</i><br /><br />Reality is sloppy. Some stories are more attention-getting. The organ story involved a fairly ghoulish accusation that was going to be widely believed in some quarters despite the lack of evidence, so it got people riled up. Other conspiracy theories are simply met with ridicule or not noticed at all because there is too much out there to take note of.<br />Many people who love to attack Israel also passed over the JPost business. It isn't that catchy. YMMV.Yitzchak Goodmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13478596798458473250noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2781379104401133933.post-76657938360777207252009-08-31T17:55:01.043-07:002009-08-31T17:55:01.043-07:00Great idea, Yitzchak!
As soon as Netanyahu asks O...Great idea, Yitzchak!<br /><br />As soon as Netanyahu asks Obama to condemn Farrakhan, I'll sit down and do the post.Ibrahim Ibn Yusufhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09839484683464457225noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2781379104401133933.post-40272092931334066332009-08-31T16:23:04.099-07:002009-08-31T16:23:04.099-07:00I have an idea for a Hasbara Buster post: After Mi...I have an idea for a Hasbara Buster post: After Michael Jackson died, Louis Farrakhan said he was a "victim" of Zionism. This was picked up with with various shades of disdain and disgust on a number of pro-Israel blogs. Here is where you come in: You point out that none of those "professional sufferers" denounced the JPost Kristin Halvorsen article--those hypocrites! Won't that be a great post? Once again Zionist intellectual dishonesty is exposed!Yitzchak Goodmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13478596798458473250noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2781379104401133933.post-34912649838787920742009-08-30T16:53:17.274-07:002009-08-30T16:53:17.274-07:00More on the Abu Kabir Forensic Institute organ the...More on the Abu Kabir Forensic Institute organ theft scandal and Yehuda Hiss from the Israeli press in 2002 and 2005:<br /><br />http://chareidi.shemayisrael.com/archives5762/vaera/abukabir.htm<br /><br />http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/pages/ShArt.jhtml?itemNo=629017Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2781379104401133933.post-11130456659447317262009-08-30T11:06:24.945-07:002009-08-30T11:06:24.945-07:00The article is indeed based on hearsay and as such...The article is indeed based on hearsay and as such a piece of crap. BUT the article does not claim to be any more than that. The "journalist" did actually state that these are rumors, which he could not prove but which needed to be investigated.<br /><br /> Now, that may still be crap of course, because baseless rumors do not need to be investigated, and saying "this must be investigated" indicates that they might be real. My point is solely, that he did not say directly that they were real. He stated, that he reported rumors.<br /><br /> Also, it was in a tabloid - the kind that in the US would run articles about "Obama's gay lover" and other utter crap. It was not taken seriously in Sweden or elsewhere at all until the Israeli government made a big fuzz about it (to prepare for the coming negotiations with the EU where Sweden will be chairman?).<br /><br />Anyway... what do you make of this?: <a href="http://www.allbusiness.com/middle-east/israel/102662-1.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.allbusiness.com/middle-east/israel/102662-1.html</a> <br /><br />This is an israeli (?) article from 2002 - when the rumors in the Swedish article were:<br /><br /><i> "State Attorney General Elyakim Rubinstein ordered police to launch an investigation against Prof. Yehuda Hiss, the nation's senior pathologist and director of the Abu Kabir Forensic Institute. Hiss is accused of a long list of charges from inappropriate behavior<br /> as a medical professional to criminal acts such as the illegal sale of and dealings in organs and body parts, removing organs from deceased persons without consent, and misrepresenting organs in returned bodies."</i><br /><br /> I don't know what to make of it, as I don't know the legal outcome... I just found that old article, and thought: as a minimum, it might have something to do with the origin of the rumors - whether they are baseless or not.vhshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11771099146365552576noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2781379104401133933.post-12131707846933431272009-08-30T11:03:52.209-07:002009-08-30T11:03:52.209-07:00This comment has been removed by the author.vhshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11771099146365552576noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2781379104401133933.post-30499593606324384802009-08-30T08:29:14.311-07:002009-08-30T08:29:14.311-07:00Anonymous:
"[...] the Aftonbladet story may ...Anonymous:<br /><br /><i>"[...] the Aftonbladet story may not be quite the "piece of crap" it first appears to be."</i><br /><br />The piece is a piece of crap, not because the story is true or not true (we don't know that) but because the journalist didn't do any... real journalism! Merely repeating hearsay is very lazy. Far more interesting would have been to proactively investigate the claims. He didn't.Gerthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07752117708821629614noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2781379104401133933.post-58330803366089596512009-08-30T08:23:13.700-07:002009-08-30T08:23:13.700-07:00Danny Seaman, director of the Government Press Off...Danny Seaman, director of the Government Press Office, whose job it is to help journalists, especially foreign correspondents, cover Israel and have access to Israel's point of view had this to say <a href="http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2003/jul/01/israel.bbc" rel="nofollow">about the BBC in 2003</a>:<br /><br /><b>"The way the BBC is trying to portray Israel competes with the worst of Nazi propaganda,"</b> the Israeli government's press office head, Danny Seaman, told Reuters.<br /><br />The BBC's coverage of the I-P conflict is seriously moot, to say the least. I rely on Aljazeera and Press TV for any <i>televised</i> news on I-P.<br /><br />Attempts at silencing the foreign press is one of the things Israel is quite famous for.<br /><br />Yaacov wrote:<br /><br /><i>"He's [Netanyahoo] perfectly aware of the issue of freedom of speech, is MIT-educated Netanyahu, and he's not demanding the Swedish rag sheet be shut down, say, or its editor burned. Other folks do that sort of thing, but not the Jews."</i><br /><br />But I don't see many regimes calling for governments to condemn the utterances of members of their free press corps...<br /><br />Bit of a Zionist reflex is that: at Harry's Place they're now jubilating because the Erasmus University of Rotterdam has decided to terminate its collaboration with Tariq Ramadan (an Islamic scholar) on the grounds that he... runs a TV show on Press TV (the exceedingly tame and boring 'Islam and Life' segment)!Gerthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07752117708821629614noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2781379104401133933.post-42880412841053475572009-08-29T22:24:03.962-07:002009-08-29T22:24:03.962-07:00Counterpucnch article:
http://www.counterpunch.or...Counterpucnch article:<br /><br />http://www.counterpunch.org/weir08282009.html#_edn1Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2781379104401133933.post-19514225451454595572009-08-29T22:23:14.647-07:002009-08-29T22:23:14.647-07:00There was an article, well sourced, in Counterpunc...There was an article, well sourced, in Counterpunch that enumerated the past and present incidences of organ harvesting for transplants or research that have occurred in Israel over the last few decades. I think it provides the necessary background with which to view the Swedish story. In light of the scandals involving some Israeli hospitals and the former chief pathologist accused of stealing body parts, the Aftonbladet story may not be quite the "piece of crap" it first appears to be.<br /><br />But the Israeli response is unsurprising. All outrage and no addressing of the issue.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com